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7 forum messages posted by
Simon R

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New Creation as the Ontology of the Church
1 [21757] Posted by: Simon R Friday 29 June 2012 - 08:49am

Am I the only one who thinks that Tom Wright's eschatology is narrowly middle-class?


Prayer of Humble Access
2 [19857] Posted by: Simon R Wednesday 15 February 2012 - 12:29pm

Dear David,

Thank you for your reply. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the discussion is led by people for whom justification by faith is not important. I know that I am in a Christian context in which people would explictly disagree with the doctrine of justification by faith, so it does not stetch credibility. I simply don't know what people think about it, but wanted to say that justification by faith is one of the issues involved here.

It is interesting to relate the 'crumbs under the table' to the original use in the scripture. I wonder to what extent this story is intended to be invoked by the use of these words in the liturgy? Or perhaps the intension is not important, to what extent does this story actually enter into people's experience at this point of the liturgy? In my own experience there is not a link here. To reinstate a link, as you suggest, would have the effect of changing the meaning, but is that what we want?

In Cranmer's day communion was very infrequent, partly because people were afraid of taking their communion whilst unworthy. In this context, the prayer functions as a pastoral reassurance that it is ok to take communion because it is a feast for sinners, not a small club for the few holy ones.

But does it mean the same today? Of course there are many within the churches who do have a pathological sense of unworthiness already. Should it be changed? Sin does have to be mentioned, but what is the appropriate amount in relation to the good stuff? This prayer, unlike others, repeatedly mentions mercy and on the whole is more positive than negative. I don't really think that those with such deep and persitant fears will leave these behind by avoiding any accusation of unworthiness, as this is not controllable in life and the world. The answer is to get counselling.


Prayer of Humble Access
3 [19851] Posted by: Simon R Tuesday 14 February 2012 - 01:55pm

It has been said that the prayer of humble access is "the only effective attempt ever made to give liturgical expression to the doctrine of justification by faith alone" by no less a figure than Gregory Dix, perhaps the greatest liturgical scholar of the 20th Century.

Rowan Williams points out that putting the prayer of humble access at this point means that the 'resolution' of the tension of being sinners comes in reception of the elements. Taking communion, not the consecration, is the climax of the service.

I suggest that the real reason people do not want the prayer of humble access today is that they don't think justification by faith is important/true or don't want a Protestant theology of the Eucharist.

So for example Christopher Newell and Mary Jones at the latest Inclusive Church conferernce argue that this prayer should never be used because it gives:

"a sense of unworthiness just before we break bread together is, for all of us, and especially for those who live every day with an overwhelming and unbearable sense of unworthiness, wholly unfortunate directly before the gathering at the feast"

Whilst it's possible to understand their pastoral concern for hurt people, one might also question whether they are, under the guise of pastoral sympathy, seeking to undermine the gospel. The truth of justification by faith is that we are sinners but that we can have the righteousness of Christ through God's mercy. If this is at the heart of the gospel then it is only fair that the sacrament which bears witness to it should reflect it.

It may well be that some wish to make justification by faith not central in the life of the church, in which case it is entirely logical to omit or modify this prayer.


On putting the cross in the manger
4 [19555] Posted by: Simon R Friday 6 January 2012 - 10:10am

It is interesting to note how this has been discussed previously through history, trying to make sense of the Bible. There have been some patristic quotes already, but one of the periods in which this discussion was most active is the late middle ages.

Bonadventure and the Scotus advocated that the second person of the Trinity would have become human even if there had been no fall. In contrast Aquinas advocated the necessity of the incarnation because of human sin:

'Although God could have become incarnate without the existence of sin, it is nevertheless more appropriate to say that, if man had not sinned, God would not have become incarnate, since in Sacred Scripture the reason for the Incarnation is everywhere given as the sin of the first man.' Summa TheologicaThird PartQuestion 1, Article 3

Generally speaking, the church decided that Aquinas' account was more plausible.

I would hope however that we would simply preach the message of any passage set for us, rather than import things said in other parts of scripture which, however good, God is not trying to communicate through this particular one.


The three streams revisited
5 [14248] Posted by: Simon R Wednesday 25 November 2009 - 11:52am
What about the Blessed Virgin Mary? Can she be added to the list too?

Being of one substance
6 [12951] Posted by: Simon R Wednesday 26 August 2009 - 01:22pm
The creed is a historical document and one of the best ways of thinking about what the terms mean is to consider the similar terms that were considered but rejected. homoousia (of one substance) has to be contrasted with homoIousia - of like substance homois - of one something (i.e. leaving how exactly they are 'one' agnostic) the history is complex, and cannot (I think) be summed up into doctrinal goodies and baddies from our later perspective. To simplify, in Greek there are two words, ousia - substance hypostasis - nature The final form was one ousia, three hypostses in the Trinity. However in Latin the two words were substantia - substance persona - persons And it was one substance in three persons. (i.e. consubstantial) There was considerable confusion between the two languages because the word substantia could be translated as either ousia or hypostasis. Those in the Greek East were afraid that the Western Latins wanted to remove all distinctions in the Godhead. Perhaps most interestingly for us (as many now hold to it) they were terrified of Sabellianism (i.e. Patripassianism) which is attribution of suffering to the Father. Instead they held him as impassible, and he had to be as he was the fountainhead of deity in their theological system. Those in the Latin West were afraid that the East wanted to create subordination within the Trinity and even deny the deity of the Son, and lots of the debates about Arianism flowed from this. Homoousia (of one substance) was considered the ultimate weapon against the Arians, and many of the East were wary of it, initially preferring the other options, until the hardline Arians (anomians) went a bit too far. This is incredibly simplified. Good books (in my opinion) on this are: J.N.D Kelly - Early Christian Doctrines and Rowan Williams book on Arius What does this tell us today? The importance of culture and clashing theological systems in theological debates. Theologically the homoousia meant that Christ was fully divine as well as fully human, and that we could therefore be saved. There is plenty more that could be said on contemporary implications of this. But this is long enough, and perhaps others are better able to than I.

Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans UK and Ireland
7 [11693] Posted by: Simon R Tuesday 23 June 2009 - 04:02pm

Baroness Caroline Cox is a female speak at FCA on 6th July.

Also featured are:

Bishop Keith Ackerman (FiF, North America)

Archbishop Peter Jenson (Sydney)

Canon Ben Enwuchola

Bishop John Broadhurst (Fulham)

Bishop John Hind (Chichester)

Bishop Michael Nazir Ali (Rochester)

Rev Vaughan Roberts (Oxford)

Canon Vinay Samual (India)

Wallace Benn

...as well as messages from the Archbishops of Ugand, Rwanda and Kenya.

You will have to make up your own mind whether this group is diverse or not.

 

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