|
'What a mighty fine woman'. The Oakhill inspection.
The opinions expressed are the authors, and not necessarily those of the Fulcrum leadership team. Messages are subject to approval before they appear online.
You are not logged on and so have only read access to the forum.
Please Login, or Sign up for a free account so you can post replies and start new threads.
|
Messages (newest first):
|
[Sort by Oldest first]
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Dave |
Monday 1 June 2009 - 11:48am |
| Intending ordinands are in fact only a minority in the Oak Hill student body. I cannot find a breakdown of the total but I doubt that this 1 in 58 is entirely represntative of student life.
David |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Fern |
Monday 1 June 2009 - 10:49am |
No hypocrisy at all, Clare. This is an internet forum, a discussion board on which anyone can post. It's nature is fleeting - the moving finger writes (or types) and having written (or typed) moves on to other threads on this or other boards. It doesn't profess to either train people in the ministry or 'grow' the church leaders of tomorrow. I think it is concerning that a theological college, which does profess to do both of those things, draws almost all its students almost all of the time from an incredibly narrow strata of society. If you don't share that concern, then we'll have to agree to differ. |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Clare |
Saturday 30 May 2009 - 09:27pm |
ahem -hyporcisy alert....is the gender and ethnic profile of this forum any less white male dominated??
obvioulsy I do not know if any of you out there are not white-do let me know if I am worng about this bit. |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: revisingreform |
Thursday 28 May 2009 - 11:13pm |
Thank you 'mighty fine woman' for responding. You do indeed speak of the college warmly and I am glad that you have not found it difficult training there. Perhaps, I need to reassess my feelings about Oakhill. I'm not sure. Obviously, I have no first-hand experience of Oakhill, only vicars who are a product of the place and about that I will say very little. I pray too that more women will find Oakhill welcoming and perhaps your glowing reviews will help to turn the tide somewhat. God bless you in your future ministry.
Rachel |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: OrdinandaryGirl |
Thursday 28 May 2009 - 03:00pm |
| Well, its not every day you unwittingly find yourself the subject of a discussion in the Fulcrum Forum. And with such a flattering title too thank you!
If I may, Id like to answer some of the questions posed/issues raised.
I am training full-time for the stipendiary presbyterate.
Im really very ordinary, and get treated no differently from any other ordinand at Oak Hill, which is as it should be.
Im not particularly brave!
The part of the inspection report which comments on my currently being the one female ordinand goes on to say it is important to acknowledge that she herself spoke warmly and positively to us about her experience as a woman student at the College.
Neither faculty nor student body have a homogeneous view on women in ordained ministry, or indeed on any other issue of orthodox doctrine or practice about which there can be legitimate debate and disagreement. There is a full range of views represented here, as I am sure there are at other colleges and on other courses.
I have never received anything but warm encouragement and support both academically and pastorally from any member of the Oak Hill faculty. Each of them who has spoken to me about the issue has been positive about my calling and future ministry. All of them, whether we have discussed the issue or not (and to be honest its not something we really talk about often) have welcomed me, and have been happy to engage in giving me the best possible training and formation for ministry.
The college would welcome more women coming to Oak Hill to be trained for ordination. Personally, while I am still here, I am happy to talk to any prospective female ordinands about life and training here, and to commend the college to them.
Although this year I am the only female ordinand, there have been more in the past and we pray there will be more again in the future. Also, there are other mighty fine women here training for other ministries, so I am not as alone as it might appear. The men are quite friendly too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: OrdinandaryGirl |
Thursday 28 May 2009 - 03:00pm |
| Well, its not every day you unwittingly find yourself the subject of a discussion in the Fulcrum Forum. And with such a flattering title too thank you!
If I may, Id like to answer some of the questions posed/issues raised.
I am training full-time for the stipendiary presbyterate.
Im really very ordinary, and get treated no differently from any other ordinand at Oak Hill, which is as it should be.
Im not particularly brave!
The part of the inspection report which comments on my currently being the one female ordinand goes on to say it is important to acknowledge that she herself spoke warmly and positively to us about her experience as a woman student at the College.
Neither faculty nor student body have a homogeneous view on women in ordained ministry, or indeed on any other issue of orthodox doctrine or practice about which there can be legitimate debate and disagreement. There is a full range of views represented here, as I am sure there are at other colleges and on other courses.
I have never received anything but warm encouragement and support both academically and pastorally from any member of the Oak Hill faculty. Each of them who has spoken to me about the issue has been positive about my calling and future ministry. All of them, whether we have discussed the issue or not (and to be honest its not something we really talk about often) have welcomed me, and have been happy to engage in giving me the best possible training and formation for ministry.
The college would welcome more women coming to Oak Hill to be trained for ordination. Personally, while I am still here, I am happy to talk to any prospective female ordinands about life and training here, and to commend the college to them.
Although this year I am the only female ordinand, there have been more in the past and we pray there will be more again in the future. Also, there are other mighty fine women here training for other ministries, so I am not as alone as it might appear. The men are quite friendly too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Fern |
Wednesday 27 May 2009 - 12:14pm |
The answer to your question, Rachel, is a resounding 'no' - the culture at Oakhill will not change. The report's description of the place as a 'white male' college is absolutely correct and from personal experience, these guys are overwhelmingly from a middle/upper middle class background. So a college which sees itself as providing a uniquely 'biblical' education draws its students from an incredibly narrow section of society. |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Deleted user 1543 |
Monday 25 May 2009 - 06:41am |
Readingthe reports was an interesting exercise - Martyn Percy clearly deserves a huge amount of credit for having turned Cuddesdon round. Though the way in which it is going will not appeal to all no doubt. It is the Cuddesdon report that shines compared to the others...and that is not what a partisan evangelical view of colleges based on ill-informed assumptions would have guessed at. If I was training now I would look very hard at Cuddesdon as the place to go. |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Stuart |
Saturday 23 May 2009 - 10:12am |
A number of dioceses are introducing the permanent diaconate as a self supported ministry - although such ordinands would be more likely to take non-residential training.
With four reports now published, there is some interesting data starting to come through:
Wycliffe: 66 ordinands; 57 men; 9 women
St Stephen's: 25 ordinands; 21 men; 4 women
Ripon: 129 ordinands; 66 men; 63 women; (62 residential; 67 non)
Oak Hill: 57 ordinands; 56 men; 1 woman
And on their "report cards":
Wycliffe: Confidence with qualifications; confidence in 8 categories; with qualifications in 4; no confidence in 1
St Stephen's: Confidence with qualifications; confidence in 8 categories; with qualifications in 5
Ripon: Confidence; confidence in 11 categories; with qualifications in 2
Oak Hill: Confidence with qualifications; confidence in 6 categories; with qualifications in 7
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: Peter |
Friday 22 May 2009 - 10:03pm |
The lady may be preparing for ordained ministry as a deacon, rather than a presbyter, which I presume conservative evangelicals would be comfortable with.
Obviously the "women's ordination" [as presbyters] topic has been well-discussed in these forums, but there don't seem to be many life-long deacons (men or women) any more. Is this an area of ministry that could be built up? Is the diaconate just seen as a stepping stone? Are there any life-long deacons out there that can share their experiences? |
|
|
|
|
|
Posted by: revisingreform |
Friday 22 May 2009 - 06:46pm |
I was interested to read the following in the Oakhill inspection:
...the College still falls far short of the House of Bishops Guidelines that a minimum of 15% of places for ordinands should be taken by women. In the current academic year, 2008/9, there is at Oak Hill only one woman ordinand amongst the 57 ordinands there in training... we are firmly of the view that a more equal gender balance amongst the College’s ordinands would benefit the ordinands themselves as well as Oak Hill as a whole... as vacancies occur, it should endeavour to achieve a better gender balance across the teaching staff which is at present predominantly male, especially in the teaching posts for traditional theological subjects. It should also ensure that ordained women from a range of traditions are regularly invited to the College to preach and/or to engage wherever possible with the College’s life and work.
We recommend that the College:
a) redouble its present efforts to recruit an increased number of women ordinands;
b) seek, as opportunity arises, to achieve a more equable gender balance in its academic staff;
c) avail itself of the widest possible range of opportunities for involving ordained women in the life and work of the College.
I wonder how realistic the aim is and whether the culture there will really begin to change. I wonder what type of ministry the woman is being trained for and what it is really like to be there under those circumstances. She is certainly brave! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
THE brutal murder of a soldier in Woolwich on Wednesday, in a suspected terrorist attack, has shocked and saddened people in the area, the Bishop of Woolwich, the Rt Revd Michael Ipgrave, has said.
Ed Thornton. Church Times 24 MAY 2013
Posted today
The Bishop of Woolwich has said he is "deeply saddened and distressed" to hear of a fatal machete attack on a man in south-east London.
Christian Today. 22 May 2013
22 May 2013
Iran has launched a public crackdown on dissent before next month's presidential election, executing two men charged with espionage and waging war against God, arresting a group of activists, including Christians, and summoning campaigners for questioning. Political prisoners in some of the country's most notorious jails have had their parole or visiting rights withdrawn and some transferred to solitary confinement.
Saeed Kamali Deghan Guardian 21 May 2013
22 May 2013
Thanks, Bowman. And does this - the pleasantness of compliance to God's order and commands - not apply not only to aspects of the law given to Israel, which we are not obliged to keep, but also to the traditions of the apostles, which we are instructed to hold on to, and pass on to the next g...
I quite like Bowman's point that there is potential danger in bringing the women bishops issue into Ephesians 5 (if I can put it like that), which is about marriage. If we want to know 'how we should conduct [ourselves] in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pilla...
Bowman, you say that the only distinguishing quality of the relationships: Christ:man, man:woman, God:Christ, and Christ:church, husband:wife (I have added one there), is coinherence. Surely, there is a hierarchy of authority visible here. Jesus submits to the Father, the church submits to the Lo...
Michael Bourdeaux gives us a new insight into Margaret Thatcher
John Martin reviews Andrew Goddard's timely memoire of the Archiepiscopate of Rowan Williams
Andrew Goddard offers a positive assessment of the recent FAOC document
|
