Forum Thread
Pentecost Prose Poem

We have just published on Fulcrum ‘Pentecost Prose Poem’ by Graham Kings.

please use this thread for discussion of the above article.

What a beautiful and uplifting piece, Graham.  She invades all the senses and rides the metaphors of wind, water, earth and fire.  Inspiring, inundating, incarnating, inflaming Spirit.

(genuine question)....... does the bible refer to the Holy Spirit as "she" or teach that the Spirit is female?

Hello Nersen.  I am no expert linguist but I gather that the Greek work pneuma used of the Spirit is neutral, whereas the Hebrew and Aramaic (ruach and rucha respectively) words are feminine.

And then, of course, we can't call the Holy Spirit 'female' as we understand the word, let alone 'male'.  Also there is perhaps resonance with the Spirit of Wisdom portrayed in the Wisdom literature as a feminine figure.

I'm quite comfortable with Graham's use of 'she' for the Spirit in his prose poem.

I thought that this would get some attention.

Ugley vicar says he would walk out!

But then that's JR for you, bless him! He's alright, really :).

Now, I've come across lots of thoughts about this. I have a friend at college, an artist. For him, the Holy Spirit is definitely female. It all depends how comfortable we are with metaphor, I suppose.

The biggest objections I have come across, which feel slightly weird to even discuss, are that when the immaculate conception occurs, some Christians, at that point, can not handle the idea of a feminised Holy Spirit because it makes the Holy Spirit's gift to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, some kind of lesbion activity. This reading strikes me as a little stretched but it's certainly quite an established reaction.

As an ex English literature teacher, I am perhaps more at ease with metaphor than some, I don't know. The feminisation of the Holy Spirit doesn't seem to present me with too many theological difficulties.

Just some reflections to add to what might become an interesting thread

Rachel at re vis.e re form

hi nersen

i guess graham is the best person to answer why he chose to use the feminine pronoun.

but my own opinion is that scripture teaches that God is neither male nor female but both and beyond - and it also teaches that the holy spirit is profoundly 'person', thus the need for a personal pronoun like he or she and most definitely not 'it'.

if we get itchy about calling the hs 'she' then we should get just as itchy about calling her 'he' - it was the most appropriate pronoun at the time, but needn't be now because the cultural objections are stacking up against using 'he' whereas they were stacked against 'she' for the ANE where 'mother god' meant something wholly other than what we would mean now if we were to ascribe the source of motherhood to God.

blessings, jody

Thanks for replies!  I definitely agree with you Jody that "it" is wrong...... thanks for the original language word gender info, Roger.  Will look into it.

The Father and the Son images and language are crystal clear, of course.......although some play with those as they push an "equality" agenda or something. We have to be disciplined in seeing what the texts actually said and how they were understood by those who wrote them and received them originally -  reading in our own ideas or agendas is a recipe for error (and division),  of course.

I wonder if you all know the wonderful hymn 'Enemy of Apathy' from the Iona Community:

She sits like a bird, brooding on the waters,

Hovering on the chaos of the world’s first day,

She sighs and she sings, mothering creation,

Waiting to give birth to all the Word will say.

She wings over earth, resting where she wishes,

Lighting close at hand or soaring through the skies,

She nests in the womb, welcoming each wonder,

Nourishing potential hidden to our eyes.

She dances in fire, startling her spectators,

Waking tongues of ecstasy where dumbness reigned,

She weans and inspires all whose hearts are open,

Nor can she be captured, silenced or restrained.

For she is the Spirit, one with God in essence,

Gifted by the Saviour in eternal love,

She is the key opening the scriptures,

             Enemy of apathy and heavenly dove.

hi nersen

um - actually i'm not sure that the Father and Son thing is 'crystal clear', but if you could perhaps elaborate what it is that you think that name 'means' about God (are you suggesting that God is male for example?), that might help further conversation. (btw just as an aid to conversation, when someone says that their view is 'crystal clear' it does rather imply that someone taking a different view is going the 'clear as mud' route - which might not be helpful to the dynamic of disagreement )

i think that i have the weight of scripture and tradition on my side in a debate about God's sexuality though

as food for thought on this, you might like to read an essay that i wrote a while ago which i published on my blog and which engages with the language that we use for God.  it was written for a particular question, as essays are, but it might give you an idea where i'm coming from on this one.

blessings, jody

Thanks for the links, I will have a look, Jody.   What I mean is when the bible uses words like "Father" and "Son", it is crystal clear...... we have no right to impose "mother" when the word is never used to describe God or the Son of God in the bible.....that is tampering with it, I think.

Certain people sometimes lead public prayers to "our mother Jesus" - they are pushing a particular political agenda....... no biblical support for calling the Son of God our "mother".... and he taught us to pray to "our Father"  -  is this true?    Perhaps some will think me simplistic.....but I cannot imagine St Peter or St Paul praying to their "mother Jesus"  -  they knew him, after all.

Nersen

Actually to call Jesus 'mother' draws on the image Jesus uses in Luke 13.34 - perhaps this seems artificial, but Jesus consciously uses this image of himself. Since it is part of Jesus' self-image, it needs to be an appropriate part of our understanding of who Jesus is.

The danger with using male language all the time, is that we lose sight of the theological insight that God is not gendered in the way our human imagining might lead us to believe - Genesis 1.27 makes this clear.

Mark -  do we not have to keep in mind that he spoke those words as a man?  I think it is stretching things to go from the verses you mention to call him "mother" and I cannot imagine that any of the apostles did so.  

If you really want to push the "mother" language from those verses, does the logic behind your position not  lead us one more step to pray to "Our chicken....." ?  We can get into a pickle by stretching pictures too far and not focussing on the primary teaching point behind the use of the picture.  The meaning of those verses is more important than the picture.....do you think the Lord was really making a point about his feminine side?  I think he was illustrating the love of God for his people with a picture they would understand.